Talk:Kizomba

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The part about kizomba in the Uk seems just to have been added to promote certain companies and i'm not sure it's completely accurate in its information?

SalsaLouisa (talk) 14:58, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

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It is a pitty we can't put music samples in wikipedia. Or it is possible we can put 30 secongs of music? There is a licence problem with that or not? Angolan kizombas are very varied, and are not exactly African, but rather a very Afro-Latin music genre. -Pedro 6 July 2005 00:21 (UTC)

from the article:

A rather large degree of flexibility in the knees is required, owing to the frequent requirement that dancers bob up and down in a manner reminiscent of a music-hall policeman.

• the author must be confusing kizomba with Kuduro. These are two different things. in kizomba there is the need to greater flexibility in the hips! In kuduro in the hipps and knees. Both styles are different both in the dancing style and rhythm. --Pedro 16:26, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Independent sources

This article lacks independent sources, see WP:RS and WP:VERIFY. Dougweller (talk) 15:03, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Kizomba and Tango

Not only are there no citations for references to the origins of kizomba in tango, but the description makes no sense at all. It seems to be suggesting that kizomba and tango share a common cultural heritage and that colonial dancers of tango influenced the African dance. I suppose both are possible but if so, it's an extraordinary coincidence. Tesspub (talk) 11:36, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Colonial dancers of Tango did not influence Kizomba. The influence of Tango is in Kizomba fusion (see Urban Kiz) which developed in europe by non angolans. They added Tango moves such as Pivots in these fusion styles. Ad these fusion styles were marketed as Kizomba there was confusion.

Also Tango comes from Candombe and other dances that was practised by african descedent people in the Rio de la plata between Uruguay and Argentine. Candombe is a word found in Angolan national languages as many african descendets from Angola were brought there. So the dances sharing origins is not unlikely. 2001:2042:302E:ED00:513C:AC66:726:FCC0 (talk) 22:08, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Slavery in Argentina

"The generally accepted theory is that in the mid-1800s, African slaves were brought to Argentina and began to influence the local culture." This cannot be true. Slavery was mostly abolished in Argentina in 1813 and completely abolished in 1853. See Abolition_of_slavery_timeline Tesspub (talk) 09:43, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

I'm not yet sure where the tango comes into all of this, but there's a bigger problem:

Kizomba and tarachinha arc similar dance forms, more intimate, sensuous, and slower than semba. Like semba, kizomba is normally danced with a partner in a light embrace. Conflicting notions exist regarding the origins of kizomba. Although some contend that it is of Angolan origin with influences from other Lusophone countries, others hold that it originated on the Cape Verde Islands. Whatever its origins, kizomba is known throughout Lusophone Africa and in Portugal, particularly in Lisbon and its suburbs that have immigrant communities. In fact, kizomba is usually sung in Portuguese with African rhythms. Angolan musicians who play kizomba include Flores, Paim, Murras, Irmaos Verdade, and Don Kikas."[1]. It's also called Zouk - see [2]. Dougweller (talk) 09:59, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Deletion?

Just about every "fact" in this article seems to have been questioned. Some of it is confusing, some of it is advertising, much of it is clearly wrong. I wonder if there's a case for deletion. Or does anyone know someone qualified to re-write it to a decent standard? Tesspub (talk) 10:04, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

No case for deletion as it clearly meets our criteria for notability. I've done some work, more than I really have time for. 10:26, 12 June 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dougweller (talk • contribs)

Edit warring

I've now protected this article, for the second time. Edit waring will not be tolerated. Provide sources for your edits, use the talk page to dicuss. Don't just add stuff that you 'know' to be right, back it up. Thanks. GedUK  11:59, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Nonsense

Does anyone here know how to read Portuguese? If yes then why not translate the article written in Portuguese? It has references, and ends at a time with this nonsense. And by the way, Kizomba is not and never was Cape-Verde origin, only a few "enlightened" think it is, just check that Kizomba was born in 1980 and cabo-love/cabo-zouk, that is clearly influenced by Zouk, appears only in 1986. Zorglub-PRV (talk) 02:30, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Who does not know anything about music do not invent. All the music from Antilles and South America is of African origin, so it is very normal, for much strange it looks, that looks-like African music. Plus, the famous merengue, originates in Angola and was brought to south America by Angolan slaves, and Zouk uses African rhythms such as Makossa, so despite being a strange coincidence, it is not surprising that Zouk sounds like the Kizomba and it is not surprising that those who do not know what is Kizomba, made confusion with Cabo-Zouk a bad imitation of Zouk made ​​in Cape Verde. So stop misrepresent the article Kizomba because you are committing a blunder. Zorglub-PRV (talk) 19:10, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Why is the kizomba called a type of Japanese drinking gathering?

Or 'why don't editors check what they are linking to'. This just makes the article look stupid. More seriously, why are there claims in the lead that aren't mentioned in the body of the article? See WP:LEAD. Dougweller (talk) 07:39, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Influences

Kizomba is prior to Zouk, and Kassav only began to be heard in Angola in 1986, if there are some influences is from kizomba to zouk and not the way around. Zorglub (talk) 22:15, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

Edit warring - article protected for the 3rd time

To quote the Admin above, " Edit waring will not be tolerated. Provide sources for your edits, use the talk page to dicuss. Don't just add stuff that you 'know' to be right, back it up." I've only protected for a week but if this continues I will protect for much longer. Dougweller (talk) 08:58, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

• Sometimes edit wars have positive outcomes. the article is impressively good. Needs pics and sounds now to be better. I'll add Anselmo Ralph to the list. He is very popular for sometime now. ---Pedro (talk) 00:19, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

Kizomba video not working?

What the heck is with that example, it is not working properly. This is shameful. Please revise it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.189.181.2 (talk) 07:51, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

Yes, it is pathetically dysfunctional. Can we please have an explanation as to why it should remain in the article? Why was it found worth adding back? If no good explanation can be given it will be removed again after a reasonable waiting period of a few days.Colin McTroll (talk) 03:37, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

Kizomba video not working March 2017

(moved from user page; video quality concern already pointed to in above post dated July 2016)
Hello, I'm TJH2018. I noticed that you removed topically-relevant content from Kizomba. However, Wikipedia is not censored to remove content that might be considered objectionable. Please do not remove or censor information that directly relates to the subject of the article. If the content in question involves images, you have the option to configure Wikipedia to hide images that you may find offensive. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you may leave a message on my talk page. Thank you. TJH2018talk 03:26, 22 March 2017 (UTC)
TJH2018 Dude, your "argument" is utterly irrelevant and off point as it wasn't removed on "censorship" grounds. Don't come HERE to discuss it. The proper procedure is to BRD on the Talk page. See you there. Colin McTroll (talk) 03:29, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

Colin McTroll, I am coming here to discuss it. You literally said it was "pathetic." Before removing, did you take a look and find a copyright free replacement? You've just started editing on March 5th, and I'm very surprised that you even know what that is...TJH2018talk 03:32, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

Also, BRD is not procedure, had you taken the time to even read past the sixth word. It is purely optional. TJH2018talk 03:36, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

TJH2018 Dude, No I didnt find a copyfree replacement, nor is that a relevant question in this case. What I found was a dysfunctional video. That fact was already commented on at the Talk page almost a year ago by someone else. The video doesn't show anything. Nor is it cited. It's really quite bad. Sorry if you feel otherwise. Do you mind confirming you actually checked the video and that you actually find some merit to what the video demonstrates? What is that merit because it isn't obvious to me? BRD is optional but that isn't much of a point either and since the issue is ALREADY on the Talk page I will be nice and move this here and get any general input that the community at large wants to add. Colin McTroll (talk) 03:48, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

@Colin McTroll: Your link to a YouTube video in the edit summary clearly shows that you have no idea what you're even talking about in regards to policy. You tried to use WP:BRD as a justification for your removal, and also tried to pass it off as policy (since you clearly didn't read it). I'm now going to point you towards WP:PRESERVE. Please take a look at that before putting your personal opinion of someone's work into play. Also, your username implies that you are WP:NOTHERE. TJH2018talk 04:08, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

@TJH2018: Dude, have it your way and keep the video. We have a majorly different perception of its merits. Your energetic desire to retain the video implies you are completely sure the video works and actually nicely shows something. I respect that and I am disengaging. Out. Colin McTroll (talk) 04:59, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

Video is very poor addition to article

I backed off on immediately dealing with this issue because any non-fake discussion will need to look at what is or is not useful about the video. I am now reintroducing the proposal that the video is not worth readers' time as itt fails to properly demonstrate anything in a meaningful way. I will remove the video in a day or two unless there is consensus otherwise. After removal it can also be discussed here if people want to add it back. Colin McTroll (talk) 14:57, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

I took a look at the video currently on the page, and I agree with Colin McTroll. The video is inaccurate to the point that it adds nothing to the article. The character in the video barely moves; the dance shown does not seem to accurately represent kizomba, for example as depicted here: [3]. The character doesn't do the two-step forward/back motion that is a characteristic of the dance. Until a good freely-licensed video can be found, there are a few photos of kizomba on Commons that could be helpful: [4] or [5] for example. Howicus (Did I mess up?) 16:43, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

Howicus Thank you for putting in elegant analytical wording what I saw as problematic: an absence of adequate demonstartion of the characteristics of the kizomba dance. I will remove the video maybe tomorrow after awaiting any contrary input just a little longer. Nemanja Sonero's demonstration of the 3 basics can be traced across to the text source that's within the article - he's a known instructor within the field. In contrast, not only does the present video not show the dance's characteristics but it has no traceable sourcing in regards to authenticity of technique. As such it's OR and I just do not see how PRESERVE concerns are relevant. Thanks again for looking at this and providing clear well-reasoned input. Colin McTroll (talk) 07:52, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

TJH2018 Plenty long enough waiting for a coherent reason to retain. Colin McTroll (talk) 15:37, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

The author is confusing Kizomba (Angola) and Cabo Zouk (Cape Verde)

This is article is about kizomba dance and music from Angola - The author is listing artists from Cape Verde Islands and refuse to list artists from Angola. The author keeps deleting corrections. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.41.46.130 (talk) 21:58, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

Can you point to musicology books that talk about this issue? Binksternet (talk) 18:12, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

@Binksternet:Kizomba is from Angola, the artists listed on the articles are Cape Verdean Zouk Singers. They should be listed under the section "Confusion with Cola-zouk". I have listed Angolans Kizomba singers and sources and you are deleting them - what is the purpose of this article? It's like writing about Mexican's music and dance and list American singers...

These are all Cape Verdean Zouk Singers: Suzanna Lubrano, Atim, Nilton Ramalho, Johnny Ramos, Nelson Freitas, Mika Mendes, Manu Lima, Cedric Cavaco, Elji, Looney Johnson, Klazzik, Mark G, To Semedo, Beto Dias, Heavy H, Marcia, Gilyto, Kido Semedo, Ricky Boy, Klaudio Ramos, M&N Pro, Gilson, Gil, G-Amado, Philip Monteiro, Gama, Juceila Cardoso and Denis Graça, Z-BeatZ Pro AudioHustlin.

Can you provide explanation why they are listed in this article instead of Angolan Kizomba singers?

Angolans Kizomba singers include: Anna Joyce, Landrick, Yola Araújo, Pedro, Ivan Alexei, Kyaku Kyadaff,Puto Português, Lil Saint, Yola Semedo,Irina França …. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.41.46.130 (talk) 22:08, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puto_Portugu%C3%AAs https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Joyce http://www.angop.ao/angola/en_us/noticias/lazer-e-cultura/2017/10/46/Musician-Ivan-Alekxei-releases-first,943ae042-5b69-4b3b-badc-8afcfd242f1f.html https://afrikavibez.com/video/fruto-proibido-liriany-angola http://www.angop.ao/angola/en_us/noticias/lazer-e-cultura/2018/6/30/Angolan-singers-spotlight-AFRIMMA-nominees,d4f828f4-9def-4ef7-9b55-c3225b56e5fd.html https://allafrica.com/stories/201809200223.html http://www.angop.ao/angola/en_us/noticias/lazer-e-cultura/2015/7/34/Anna-Joyce-release-new-album-this-year,cf7a9174-56b1-4d2b-81e9-219494854e0a.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.41.46.130 (talk) 21:18, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

Here is a reliable source with Angolan Kizomba singers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.41.46.130 (talk) 03:58, 17 April 2019 (UTC)

@Binksternet:Body Politics.: The Social Production of Difference in the Dutch Kizomba Scene By Ine Beljaars. Angolan Kizomba singers Eduardo Paim, Paulo Flores, Yola Semedo, Matias Damasio, Anselmo Ralph, and Yuri da Chunha page 41

Semi-protected edit request on 27 November 2019

Change: Kizomba is a genre of dance and a Portuguese language musical genre originating in Angola in 1984

to: Kizomba is a genre of dance and music originating in Angola in 1984. The musical genre started with lyrics in kimbundo , but has now expanded to the 4 corners of th world and you can find singers using capeverdian, French, english Portuguese and even Chinese. The dance style has mutated from the original family and social dance that has been the base of Angolan gatherings, to a hyper-sexualised version who it started to be taught by non- Angolan teachers. 2A02:C7D:B9AE:2A00:9187:482:C3AE:425A (talk) 19:13, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ‑‑ElHef (Meep?) 19:53, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 February 2020

Kimbundu isn't a minority language but actually a majority language. The three biggest Tribes are Bakongo who speak Kikongo & a minority Lingala, Ambundu who speak Kimbundu and Ovimbundu who speak Umbundu. Overall the whole article lacks proper sourcing and continuity. [[Special:Contributions 19:43, 2 February 2020 (UTC)

 Not done. You're not backing up your claims with your own sources, though. El_C 19:45, 2 February 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 February 2020

Kimbundu isn't a minority language but one of the majority languages with 3 Million Speakers (in 1999)¹

So the change should be "Kizombada means "party" in Kimbundu, a Bantu language spoken in Angola."¹

"Kizomba music emerged as a more modern music genre with a sensual touch mixed with African rhythm and Haitian compas." Where is the Source for that claim?

The actual inventor of Kizomba Eduardo Paim denies any influence from Zouk but admits their similarities. He lists the influences & stylistic origins in Semba, Kilapanga, Merengue Angolano and Latin American music in the sections "Aceita que lhe atribuam o título de precursor da kizomba?" & "Quem deu o nome de kizomba a este estilo?" Compa isn't even mentioned²

"Cape Verdean singers and producers with kizomba compilations include Suzanna Lubrano, Atim, Nilton Ramalho, Johnny Ramos, Nelson Freitas, Mika Mendes, Manu Lima, Cedric Cavaco, Elji, Loony Johnson, Klazzik, Mark G, To Semedo, Beto Dias, Heavy H, Marcia, Gilyto, Kido Semedo, Ricky Boy, Klaudio Ramos, M&N Pro, Gilson, Gil, G-Amado, Philip Monteiro, Gama, Juceila Cardoso and Denis Graça, Z-BeatZ Pro AudioHustlin'. Original influential music styles from Cape Verde are funaná, morna, coladeira and batuque. Thanks to the French Antilles zouk music and the strong influence of semba (from Angola), Cape Verdean singers have developed significantly kizomba and zouk (mixing it with coladeira) known as cabo love or cola-dance. Moreover, every lusophone country has developed its own Kizomba music flavour.[4]"

It doesn't really make much sense to include Cape Verdean Cola-Zouk singers in the Origin Section of Kizomba. That's like writing an article about Rap and listing UK- Drill Rappers or French Rappers in the Origin Section. There should be a seperate Section for Cape Verdean Singers (Just like the Section for Brazil & China) with the mentioned content. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Malembadas (talk • contribs) 12:17, 8 February 2020 (UTC)

Sources:

¹https://web.archive.org/web/20120923031547/http://www.ethnologue.com/show_country.asp?name=Angola#

²https://web.archive.org/web/20130927200128/http://www.opais.net/pt/dossier/?det=21059

The complete article should be revised. Malembadas (talk) 11:59, 8 February 2020 (UTC)

​Done. If you want to further revise or rewrite this article you can copy it over to your sandbox and then make another request here that someone implement your changes. – Thjarkur (talk) 00:39, 9 February 2020 (UTC)

Recent Changes by @Thjarkur

I checked the recent changes and you accidently made a mistake with the 4th citation link at "Kizomba music emerged as a more modern music genre with a sensual touch mixed with African rhythm." The actual link is https://web.archive.org/web/20130927200128/http://www.opais.net/pt/dossier/?det=21059 It is an archived version of the original site (which doesn't exist anymore). You only included the last part which doesn't exist anymore. Moreover the Stylistic Origins in the right blue Box on the Desktop Version of the Site are Semba, Kilapanga, Angolan Merengue based on the mentioned source.

Regards — Preceding unsigned comment added by Malembadas (talk • contribs) 23:57, 9 February 2020 (UTC)