Talk:Satellaview

Earthbound Zero

"Earthbound Zero" (not an official title) was dumped from a prototype NES cartridge and had nothing to do with the Satellaview as far as I know. I'm editing that line unless someone can produce documentation to the contrary.

Radical Dreamers

I'm surprised there's no mention of Radical Dreamers, since it was a semi-sequel to Chrono Trigger available only through the BS-X... I'd add it myself, but frankly I'm not sure where it might go. --Blue Dream 17:14, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Infobox

This article here needs an infobox here, which the image here would be included in the infobox. --PJ Pete, January 1, 2009, 2:29

Bitrate?

What was the maximum theoretical and average download speeds for the Satellaview? From the diagram in the article, it appears to have no upload ability. - MSTCrow 06:20, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

BS-2 sent data and audios at 2048bit * 1000frame/s in analog broadcast. When 4channels audios are broadcasted(i.e. WOWOW and St.GIGA)data can be sent　at 480kb/s. But all data broadcastings were sent by packets. A Packet(288bit/pkt) was sent by 9 frames. Sorry, I don't know English sources. Please refer Japanese sources such as referred at ja:日本における衛星放送#通常画質の送出方式--Hadsn (talk) 10:16, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Bitrate of St.GIGA's data broadcasting was about 128kbps. The page for recruit new data provider says "both digital and analog broadcasting carries 128kbits per second(effective value). Bandwidth is 250kbit/s. So we can transmit about 1.3GB(about 2 CDs) per day." --Hadsn (talk) 12:03, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

When?

I think the introduction needs to mention when it was released and when it finished. Does anybody know?
138.243.228.52 12:24, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

The "X".

It was my understanding that the "X" in BS-X stood for "eXpansion" - the same way that the "X" in PSX originally stood for eXpansion (since the PlayStation was originally an expansion for the SNES). I have no source for this though, can anyone confirm? TheUncleBob 12:54, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

List of games

It looks like the "List of games" is just taken from a list of known ROM dumps. It's rather unorganized, definitely incomplete, and hasn't sorted out the "Games" from the software that isn't actually games. : 3:33 AM August 19, 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.94.48.71 (talk) 07:34, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Compatibility

It should be mentioned in this article that only the original model of the SFC is compatible for the Satellaview, and that the Super Famicom Jr. (known in North America as the SNES II), is too small to fit on the Satellaview, even though we know the North American SNES obviously doesn't fit on the Satellaview. --PJ Pete, December 29, 2008 3:36

• Could you supply a sort of picture to explain how this doesn't work? I can understand the SNES for being too -large-, or an irregular shape, but it wouldn't matter if it's too "small" if it still has the EXT port at the bottom. --
  • Super Famicom Jr. doesn't have EXT port. And commercial paper says "SF Jr. doesn't support Satellaview items." But I think that saved games can be played with SF Jr.--Hadsn (talk) 10:16, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Clarification on "Compatible Memory Packs" section

I was looking at that section and was wondering if something seemed off with it. I then looked at the broadcasts and saw that most of that data was also put in that section. It took a while for me to then realize that the "Compatible Memory Packs" section may have actually referred to the versions of these datas that were sold/distributed pre-packaged, rather than the versions that were put up for download. I've seen "Same Game Koma Data" packed in with "Same Game", and the SD Gundam G-Next data was sold separately. The "Tengai Makyo" data, however, was seemingly given away as a promotional prize, and is more rare. They are identical in terms of data to the versions that were downloaded, but I've heard from some people that they were on a non-rewritable ROM rather than Flash memory. That I can't confirm myself, but I can find pictures of the packs if necessary. I do not know if there are any others like that. Anyway, hopefully this is helpful.--KiddoCabbusses (talk) 14:29, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

I think the new section I just added on data downloads should clarify this issue. I think it works best if the broadcasts page contains all info on program code that was transmitted to players over the satellite airwaves and the "Compatible Memory Packs" section to focus on actual memory paks that were purchasable independently but that were compatible with the Satellaview. Hope that clears things up a bit. Also some pictures would be great. Cheers, -Thibbs (talk) 16:51, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

BS-X: Soreha Namae wo Nusuma Reta Machi no Monogatari

I just added a section on this application itself. The section needs to be expanded. I'll do it myself unless someone else wants to take a swing at it. I think this will help the article greatly because this is one of the most confusing aspects of the system for those that are unfamiliar with it. I think a proper explanation of how the player would go about downloading games form within the little world of the BS-X Cartridge would be in order. I would also like to expand this section to briefly cover the various Nitnendo/St.GIGA mascots such as the male and female town mascots, the satellite dish, Parabou, and the Satellite, Satebou. On the other hand I think that we shouldn't go overboard with this section. I believe we should attempt to limit it to the most essential aspects and then if someone later wants to make it into a full-blown article then we can add a "Main article:" header at that point.

Apart from that section I think the article is getting to the point where we can bring it to peer review. We obviously need many more references before that point but luckily I have a fair number of references at my disposal and so I will attempt to address this issue as soon as possible. -Thibbs (talk) 22:25, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

OK I just finished it. I'd like to get some images of the Mascots and of the Satellaview avatars but apart from that my only next step will be to start sourcing the heck out of it. I have a lot of old magazine scans and such to go through but I will try to be prompt. -Thibbs (talk) 01:09, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Schedule Question

Forgive me if I'm dumb, but how can the schedule go up to 26:00, when 23:59 is the last minute of the day? - Rev. Syung Myung Me (talk) 16:40, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

No you're not dumb. That's a very good question. All official schedules do show this to be the case, though. I think the most likely answer is that 25:00 would correspond with 1:00AM the next day and 26:00 would correspond with 2:00AM the next day, etc. The events and games scheduled for 24:00-26:00 were often repeats of earlier broadcasts so it seems likely that these time-slots were intended to accommodate adults who would have been up later in the evening. -Thibbs (talk) 17:37, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Satellaview only supports analog broadcasting

• All of　data broadcastings related Satellaview were for free. Please watch the commercial films.
• Satellaview only supports analog broadcasting. The base has bit stream input only. How it can be imputed the datas from BS Digital broadcasting? BS Digital tuners has no bit stream output such as analog tuners one.
• St.GIGA's radios were scrambled. But スーパーファミコンアワー is not scrambled. If these programs were scrambled, how players can listen to them? Satellaview only supports un-scrambled programs.
• St.GIGA.jp doesn't say "BS tuner can be rent". It's only a decorder. And that page is not official site. The page says "このサイトは、セント・ギガのファンが趣味で作った個人ページです。". --Hadsn (talk) 10:16, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Which commercial films are you talking about? You have to provide sources to support what you are claiming. The two fliers are potentially good evidence, but what magazine do they come from? And what part of them supports what you are saying? The first one does say "無料でご利用いただけます" which could be interpreted to back up your claim that the broadcasting was free, but we need some specific sources to cover the claims about analog versus digital signals, and scrambled/decoded versus unscrambled claims. If you don't have any good sources readily available I do have a fair bit of material I can look over, but I am rather busy at present so it will take me a little time. -Thibbs (talk) 07:00, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

@Thibbs:

・A1.Because of CF says nearly equals to the pictures, link of which was omitted.

・A2.When I digged the URL, I could find a sentence which says "ゲームチラシコレクション". So I think the pictures as the　handed out commercial paper at Game shop.

・A3.I think sentence in the paper of "BSチューナを経由した衛星データ放送を受信するデコーダを内臓。さらにPCM音声放送(ノンスクランブル)を受信することができます。" can back up my opinion that スーパーファミコンアワー weren't scrambled. If scrambled Sattelaview could not decode the voices of Sound linked games.

・A4.Do you know Japanese analog BS broad casting emitted analog NTSC video and sub-carrier modulated digital audio and data? This fact is very important for the claim.

・PS.At BS analog broadcasting subscriber needs buy(or rent) tuner and decoder and contract with JSB or St.GIGA. When you are contracting with thees providers, one need tell one's decoder ID. Most of decoders are separated from BS tuner. --Hadsn (talk) 11:11, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

@Hadsn and Thibbs:Hi guys. I am not a Satellaview expert and I don't know Japanese at all. I'm sorry to say that I do not really understand some of Hadsn's English. I don't understand how there can be a premise that Satellaview or St.Giga are analog, or that digital equals scrambled or encrypted. Digital audio can include PCM or whatever. But I did a lot of editing and research for this and for St.Giga in the interest of Nintendo history. I had added a reference to the St.Giga article wherein Billboard magazine stated that St.Giga (preceding and during the context of Satellaview) is the world's first digital radio station. Does that clear up what you were talking about at all? Thanks for caring, because it helps to dig up dirt on this general subject for those of us who aren't experts and who didn't experience it. — Smuckola (Email) (Talk) 08:49, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

@Smuckola:Thank you for digging the article from the magazine. But it doesn't clear up these problems. The article says only "St.GIGA will start game broadcasting." I think we have to reed more article written in Japanese. --Hadsn (talk) 11:11, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

@Hadsn: No actually that's just the title. The body says "a radical shift in style for St.Giga, billed as the world's first digital radio station when it debuted in November 1990". So doesn't that explicitly answer the question of whether Satellaview is analog or digital, although in a nontechnical way? I'm sure that the most information about St.Giga and Satellaview are in Japanese sources. :( This is the same with 64DD, and I wrote that article myself based on English sources, so please let me know if you find anything there too. Both Satellaview & St.Giga, and 64DD & Randnet, need original Japanese reviews and descriptions and everything. Very much! Arigato. — Smuckola (Email) (Talk) 11:42, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

I have to say sorry. Because of I have been interested in broadcasting system, I was looking into Satellaview as apart of looking into that. So I don't have plan to check the 64DD article in great detail. But I will check and correct the article as much as I can. I don't know when I can do that.(・ω<)--Hadsn (talk) 16:45, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

I'm in complete agreement that the article needs more Japanese sources. I have in fact been collecting them for a few years now and translating them in my spare time. There are definitely errors in some of the English-language sources I have read and even the Japanese sources are not immune from incorrect reporting. The video you linked, for example, shows a Satellaview version of Torneko no Daibōken at 6:47, but despite reviewing a lot of material on this topic I have never seen any mention of this game as actually being broadcast via Satellaview. It should also be noted that in general it is preferable to use articles as citations instead of advertisements and fliers. I'll also echo Smuckola's thanks for caring about this topic, Hadsn, and I hope we can all work together to straighten out any problems. Please be patient with the discussion here because there are some communication problems. I also have a little difficulty understanding some of the things you are saying. One thing that puzzles me is that you are talking about the decoder from the set-top box but if the data isn't scrambled then what is it decoding? I think the audio portion may not have been scrambled, but the game portion was. Anyway I'll continue to look through my material on the topic but this may take some time. It would be good for us all to work together here in talk. -Thibbs (talk) 13:28, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

All St.GIGA's own normal radio programs were encrypted, but only section of game data and during sound link game (game data and sounds) is broadcasted, St.GIGA let all of Satellaview users also who doesn't contract with them receive games and sounds.--Hadsn (talk) 17:50, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

OK I found a good source. Famitsu Issue #333 has a Q&A with Parabou and Satabou that covers the exact topic. I'll get to work translating it. I'll ping you both when I'm done. Hopefully it shouldn't take too long. It's only 14 sentences long. -Thibbs (talk) 00:03, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

@Hadsn and Smuckola: Sorry I'm going slowly with the translation. I'm very busy these days off-Wiki and I haven't had a moment to sit down to work on it. I'm about half way finished, but I'll just paste it here so others can get a look at it too. Sorry again. Here's the text:
"サテ坊パラ坊Q&A
ざつと説明したど、まだ何が何だかわかんな〜い、という人はここを読んでみよう。サテ坊、パラ坊が疑問にずばり答えちゃうぞ。
WOWOWに加入しないとスーパーファミコン放送を聴いたり遊んだりできないのかなあ?
それは間違いだよ。スーパーファミコンアワーの時間帯はノンスクランブル放送なのでBSチューナーがあれば、デコーダーがなくても誰でも受信できるのだ。データ放送もセント・ギガのラジオ放送とはべつの電波で24時間流れているノンスクランブル放送なんだよ。
BSチューナー内蔵のビデオにデータ放送が受信できないものがあるって聞いたんだけど……
一部の機器には、そのままだと受信できないものがある。でも設定を変えれば大丈夫なものもあるんだ。専用の注文はがきにBS機器の型番を書いておけば、任天堂が対応のしかたを教えてくれるぞ。
スーパーファミコンアワーのデータ放送とラジオ放送の違いは?
データ放送はゲームなどがスーパーファミコンを使ってテレビ画面上で楽しめるもの。ラジオ番組のほうはデータ放送にリンクしたセント・ギガの3時間番組なのだ。このふたつをまとめてスーパーファミコンアワーと呼んでいるんだよ。".
I can provide the full citation if this is helpful. -Thibbs (talk) 06:31, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

@Thibbs and Hadsn: Are we talking about decoding (or decryption), or about demodulation? Thibbs, what did you think about Billboard's statement about the service being digital? Is that what we're talking about? I guess that doesn't necessarily mean it's all 100% digital, I dunno. Maybe there are analog channels. I took it to mean that the whole broadcast system is digital. Ideally, we'd use a separate discussion forum site for this (WP:NOTFORUM) but I bet that's pretty darn hard to find. Maybe gbatemp. I dunno; good luck. — Smuckola (Email) (Talk) 14:53, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

I'm not 100% sure about whether the Billboard article is discussing audio-only or game-code streaming too. I know there was a researcher online who was looking into this stuff (maybe under the name LuigiBlood?), but I'm not sure what his conclusions were. Anyway here's another reliable source which touches on this too:

"The establishment of Satellite Giga has greatly influenced the introduction of DAB to Japan. Rather than replacing the present analog system, DAB will most likely remain a subscription-based, supplemental service. Thus, Japan will maintain a two-tiered system including free terrestrial analog transmissions complemented by satellite DAB transmissions for subscribers."
—Valenti, Gregory. "Digital Audio Broadcasting: An International Perspective On Compact-Disc Quality Radio." American University Journal of International Law and Policy. Fall 1992. (8 Am. U. J. Int'l L. & Pol'y 273)

This passage also has two footnotes associated with it that I could provide. I hope that helps. -Thibbs (talk) 15:03, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

Please read my A4 sentence posted to this Talk on November 21st and this source. So St.GIGA is the first digital radio station, and Japanese Broadcasting law handles CS-PCM broadcasting as analog broad casting.--Hadsn (talk) 17:34, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Japanese isn't my native language. Can you point to a specific place in the 28-page document that you are talking about? -Thibbs (talk) 00:03, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

I'm sorry that I didn't consider into how you will read the source. Please read section "(b) アナログ衛星放送" from "(i) アナログ衛星放送の伝送規格" to "(ii) 音声信号の伝送規格" on page 11&12. The section shows us how the analog video, digital audio and data had been transmitted via BS analog broadcasting.--Hadsn (talk) 08:20, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

I haven't looked deeply into these sources yet, but do they actually mention St.GIGA or the Satellaview at all or are you just extrapolating? There's not necessarily a problem, but it is generally a better idea to cite sources that directly speak about the topic. Too much extrapolation runs the risk of violating Wikipedia's policy on Original Research. -Thibbs (talk) 06:31, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

At the risk of overstepping anything, I'll send some pings to some of the more resourceful people I've worked with on Wikiproject Video Games in addition to Thibbs. @Martin IIIa, NathanWubs, Czar, Masem, and Sergecross73: Maybe you guys have some ideas or resources on the subject of Satellaview's and St.Giga's technical specs. — Smuckola (Email) (Talk) 08:38, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

OK. I also have quite a few more sources on the topic, but I haven't fully processed everything so it's mostly Japanese. Incidentally, if any of these new ping-receivers can review the Japanese text I pasted in above (in green) that would be helpful. Otherwise I'll get to it when things get a bit less hectic. I'd have done it myself but I felt bad about making everyone wait on me. -Thibbs (talk) 12:22, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for bring such a description. That must be great source for スーパーファミコンアワー were not encrypted. Only for to be known we should remove a description of BSデジタル so and so and why St.GIGA, the first DAB radio station, can broadcast on BS analog with digital sounds, I brought such a PDF forward. Now I think I shouldn't bring such a too complicated source. Three HTML files, is linked to upgrade St.GIGA article on Wikipedia, can say a part of so. Such a technical fact should be written in Direct-broadcast satellite in Japan(Although only the point is written in the Japanese サテラビュー article). But it is the source for St.GIGA telling a little lie in sound quality.--Hadsn (talk) 16:22, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

New source

• http://motherboard.vice.com/read/satellaview-nintendos-forgotten-console I don't know if anything new is in here, but it's a pretty long article, so I thought it could be of interest. Sergecross73 msg me 14:49, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

That could definitely be used throughout the page, I'll look into this. Namcokid47 (talk) 00:36, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

• More information about the Satellaview has appeared in Amusement Press' Game Machine magazine just a few hours ago: https://onitama.tv/gamemachine/archive.html Roberth Martinez (talk) 19:05, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Satellaview/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: ProtoDrake (talk · contribs) 11:06, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

Hopefully I'll be able to review this properly. I haven't taken on a console article GA review before. Hope to have comments or suchlike before the end of the week. --ProtoDrake (talk) 11:06, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

Thank you ProtoDrake. I will be looking forward to your comments. Namcokid47 ^(Contribs) 18:08, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

Alright Namcokid47, I've got some comments for you.

History

• "Nintendo stressed to video game publications, that much of Satellaview's content, namely broadcasts by St.GIGA themselves, were aimed primarily for adults, with video games constituting only a small portion of airtime." - I don't think we need the comma after "publications".
• Seta doesn't link to the company page. Correct to SETA Corporation.
• Since SquareSoft is a redirect, either change it to Square or link via SquareSoft.
• "Despite the company being in a slump due to the failure of the Virtual Boy and sales of Super Famicom games falling" - Perhaps rephrase to "Despite the company being in a slump due to falling Super Famicom game sales and the Virtual Boy's failure". Just a suggestion. The original just seems needlessly wordy.
• "Satellaview was never released in North America, which some publications cite due to the expensive costs of satellite broadcasting, and due to a supposed lack of appeal to American consumers." - Feels like there's a missing word in here. Maybe rewrite to "...which some publications cited as being due..." or similar. As it stands, it seems to jump from one sentence structure to another without a transition.
• "When the service had first launched, St.GIGA had a number of issues regarding broadcasting video game..." - Too many "had"s.

Technical specifications

• MB? I know many will know that means megabit, but it should be clarified in its first instance.
  • In general, there are a lot of abbreviations here that might confuse a casual reader. I know it's unnecessary to link or explain all of them, but terms such as "BS" I think warrant at least an explanation of parenthesis.

Games and services

• Link Chunsoft (or link to Spike Chunsoft, whichever is better).
• Perhaps link Shirin the Wanderer to the Mystery Dungeon series article.

Reception and legacy

• What is meant by "dismissed" in this instance? Dismissed as in sent away, dismissed as in shut down (not the case given info), dismissed in some other sense? It looks a strange word to use. If it's in the cited article, using quotes around it would work.
• In the legacy section, there is a [when?] tag in place for how long the Satellaview has had a cult following. Please clarify this, or rephrase it.

That's what really jumped out at me. In general, an interesting and well-crafted article. Just some elements that look they were were missed during editing passes. --ProtoDrake (talk) 19:17, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

ProtoDrake - I believe I corrected everything you brought up. This was one of the longest articles I've done, so there were bound to be some oversights. Namcokid47 ^(Contribs) 19:43, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

@Namcokid47: If you want to take it further, I think it needs a peer review or similar. Otherwise, I think this is a Pass. --ProtoDrake (talk) 19:54, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

Subscription fees

The article currently mentions "monthly subscription fees to both St.GIGA and Nintendo". But the Japanese article clearly states that the only requirements were the following equipment: the Satellaview and the BS-Tuner (connected to the dish) and adds that there was no subscription fees (the Super Famicom Hour was a dedicated segment with an unscrambled signal) and no BS-decoder (normally used to decode the rest of the St.GIGA radio/TV programs and which is different from the BS-Tuner). As for the subscription fees to Nintendo, I can't find any reliable source about that. Ann Mercer (talk) 14:38, 14 April 2023 (UTC)