Talk:List of Grand Theft Auto: Vice City characters

Reference to Heat?

"However, he arrives late, and when he finally appears, he is instantly slain by SWAT gunfire. This is a reference to the 1995 film Heat, directed by Michael Mann, who also was the executive producer of Miami Vice."

Are you sure about this? I've never seen Heat, but this seems like too vague of an event to be credited to one movie. Unless it's a very distinct, clear reference I think it should be removed.

Tulane University

"In an Easter egg scene, it is revealed [Tommy Vercetti] attended Tulane University."

I don't recall finding such a clue to this trivia. Could someone clarify as to which Easter egg this passage refers to and when it could be seen? ╫ ２５ ^{◀RingADing▶} 09:05, 6 June 2006 (UTC) ╫

This "Easter Egg Cut Scene" doesn't exist at all. Just fiction from a bored human being. 80.171.13.180 14:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Suggestion to move DJs to Grand Theft Auto: Vice City soundtrack

Wouldn't be more appropriate if this information be merged with Grand Theft Auto: Vice City soundtrack? The DJs don't appear to be all that relevant to the storyline itself, and are more frequently associated with the radio stations. Besides, it would be beneficial to readers of the soundtrack article, who I won't really expect to visit this character page just for minor info on radio personalities. We can simply include a "see also" link in place of this article's DJ section. ╫ ２５ ^{◀RingADing▶} 17:18, 16 October 2006 (UTC) ╫

While we are at it, perhaps we can do with same with List of characters in Grand Theft Auto: Vice City Stories and Grand Theft Auto: Vice City Stories soundtrack. ╫ ２５ ^{◀RingADing▶} 17:20, 16 October 2006 (UTC) ╫

Victor Vance → Pete Vance changes

This has gone on far enough. This article primarily discusses character in Grand Theft Auto: Vice City, not Vice City Stories. This encyclopedia also presents facts, not assumptions or speculation. We are not in the business of suggesting who is who based on a vague suggestion of a third brother, nor pushing information conflicting with what was presented as of the release of Vice City (mind you, the official Vice City website only mentions Victor and Lance, so it was presumed at the time that there they were the only Vance brothers). Any attempts to change his name again without discussion here will be undone.

Keep this sort of discussion in the Vice City Stories entry. Then again, is that speculation even notable? ╫ ２５ ^{◀RingADing▶} 14:22, 23 February 2007 (UTC) ╫

It's still happening! Guys, listen. Pete Vance did not exist in GTA Vice City!!! The official website states Lance Vance's brother as Victor Vance. Therefore he is the brother that died. Do not change it! I've added a hidden comment to try to stop anyone that might mistakenly change it. Let's hope this problem ends now. .:Alex:. 18:30, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

And it happened again. I am going to change this. The characters is VICTOR not PETE. Geez... Larrylarp (talk) 15:52, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Adding a spoiler warning

Since some of the characters are later killed,wouldn't it be good to have a spoiler warning? ¸¸¸¸

Edited Rico

this part: "however Rico is seen again, helping Tommy and other members of the Cuban Gang completely destroy the Haitian Drugs Factory (clearly he survived the explosion)."

the character model used for Rico was also just a general cuban gangster model (as in there are usually several guys who looks just like rico standing around). Since no one else in the 3D GTA games has ever survived a vehicle explosion while sitting inside it, there is no way he survived, plus the fact that he was not mentioned again in the game.

heatsketch, september 11th 239 pm —Preceding unsigned comment added by Heatsketch (talk • contribs) 18:39, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Rico is mentioned again. As you aquire a Voodoo in 'Trojan Voodoo' the text says 'Go meet Rico and the other Cubans' or something similar. Larrylarp (talk) 00:33, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that only Tommy survives this mission. TheTrojanHought (talk) 16:07, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Maurice Chavez

Maurice Chavez certainly does not belong in this article. If he needs to be listed, then Lazlow, Fernando Martinez and all the other DJ's should be here as well. Besides, Maurice doesn't make any appearances in any cutscenes or missions. Larrylarp (talk) 00:35, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Voice

can someone please tell me who voiced Mr. Black and Leo Teal as well as Rico, Pepe, Victor Vance in this one and Mike. This would be a huge help, so please tell me if you know. By the way Mr. Black should have his own section in the article.

Delores

Where's Dolores come on in Grand Theft Auto Vice City? I finished full game, and I'm not meet Delores. I know, allege talk page isn't place on doped my problem, but I please answer for my question. Sharon boyfriend talk to me? 22:26, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

She is the announcer for Kaufman Kabs. You see her breifly in the cut scene when Tommy purchases the company. TheTrojanHought (talk) 16:09, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Lance

Just wondering if Lance was partly based off Manny Ray from Scarface. Both are the main characters' main partner, and both betray the main character and are subsequently killed. Manny betrays Tony by sleeping with his sister and Lance betrays Tommy by telling the Forellis about the counterfeit money. TheTrojanHought (talk) 16:21, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Image & category

OK people. I separated the more important characters that are not big to supporting characters as in the San Andreas article for characters. I have also uploaded images for the MAJOR characters and the other's without one, similar to the case in the aforementioned article above. So tell me what y'all think? --Flesh-n-Bone 21:12, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Looks good, although I think Avery should be dropped into Supporting as he is only involved in side missions. Dbam ^Talk/_{Contributions} 21:34, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

I thought that too, but he was put on the top names above Diaz, so I just uploaded an image for him. --Flesh-n-Bone 22:55, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Well the article is still attracting attention relating to its use of fair-use images, so i've moved Avery to Supporting—per my reason above—and removed his picture accordingly. Dbam ^Talk/_{Contributions} 10:00, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

I know, I removed the tag, because I feel we should create our consensus for this one as well. --Flesh-n-Bone 12:56, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Looks good to me. Eganio^Talk 14:56, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

But Black Kite can't sleep until we have them removed. So the best thing is to make our consensus like for the San Andreas one and complete end this thing. I'm going to do the same for GTA III too. --Flesh-n-Bone 15:12, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

The current configuration looks solid. The article is better with seven images of major characters. Croctotheface (talk) 15:25, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

I, for one, am not worried about sleepless nights for Black Kite. If the editors of this article come to a consensus, then he/she will simply have to deal with the outcome. I am not willing to kowtow to the whims and interpretations of one person, especially when the issue this particular editor raised has been dealt with numerous times by many of the same editors of the GTA pages. I think we're all tired of the constant struggle with this and other self-proclaimed members of the overly diligent policy police. Eganio^Talk 18:52, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

I agree with above, so someone who has a solid GTA3 knowledge, could you cut the parts to three one's (major, supporting, minor) meaning the major one's at top with image so I can continue, because I have not done GTA3 yet. --Flesh-n-Bone 19:55, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Peter McKay

Article says that Peter McKay was a voice in Love Fist - but he died in 2000, 2 years before Vice City's release. 83.151.195.33 (talk) 20:59, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

I think it's safe to say it wasn't that Peter McKay. That link, and the others, were added recently and I have now reverted them. Thanks for pointing it out. Dbam ^Talk/_{Contributions} 16:03, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

NFCC does not forbid using images here

The editors here who are deleting images by saying, flatly, that they "violate this and that" should be clearer about the fact that NFCC does not make any mention at all of "lists" or "characters" articles. It is necessary to interpret the text that is there to derive this opinion. However, a more useful interpretation to work with is that at Wikipedia:NFC#Non-free image use in list articles. The guideline, which exists to interpret the policy, does not proscribe images from articles such as this, despite the declarations of some edit summaries here at this page. Considering that WP:NFC is a guideline supported by broad consensus and that the consensus of editors at this page, when the matter was discussed, called for including the images that were recently removed, they should be put back into the article. Croctotheface (talk) 05:31, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

• Not unless it can be explained how they pass every criterion of WP:NFCC, which is policy. At the moment, all the images fail at least three criteria, and possibly more. Black Kite 10:26, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

• You removed them per #7 as a recall. That one is easily shown. The rest also seem fine. Could you please indicate which of these 10 you see an issue with. All of them seem pretty clear to me. Thanks. (I restored one image already, probably should have discussed here first, but never got a response from you at the notice board. Hobit (talk) 17:00, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

• Opps, see you cited WP:NFCC#1, WP:NFCC#3a and WP:NFCC#8. If you think 1 is an issue, could you plase point to a free equivalent. That would address all these issues. 3a, if you can provide one iamage that identifies all the figures, that would also be helpful. If not, I don't think it applies. As far as #8 goes, are you saying that knowing what a character looks like is unimportant to increasing the reader's understanding of the character? That is certainly an unusual take. What spock looks like is unimportant, so should those type of images (in every TV show article) be removed too? Hobit (talk) 17:05, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

• Yes, that's absolutely it. They should. Wikipedia has been very lax in doing this, though there has been some consensus that a single image of a character in their own article if they are important enough to have one is probably reasonable. But what does that image (which I've removed again) add to the reader's understanding of that character? None. It's decorative. Now if the appearance of the character was actually important to the reader's understanding of article (and that appearance couldn't easily be described in text) then it may just about pass #1 and #8. The free equivalent, incidentally, is text (or nothing at all). Black Kite 18:17, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

• OK, I think you are misreading both the text of the policy and then general consensus about that text. So, what I'd like to do is find an appropriate place to find others to comment on this. Suggestions? addendum I fully understand that I may be in the wrong here. In fact, given that you've been around much longer than me, it isn't unlikely. But I don't agree with your understanding of this and want to find a way to resolve it. Thanks....Hobit (talk) 19:15, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

The appropriate place is WT:NFCC, and feel free to start a discussion there - but I'd point out that this has been already been rehashed there numerous times, with repeated agreement that non-free image galleries in lists almost always fail NFCC. Black Kite 21:02, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

• Black KIte, do you recognize that what you are doing is _interpreting_ the policy? Would you agree that the policy does not say anything about "characters" articles? It gives certain criteria for how to use fair use images. You have interpreted these criteria one way, but your way is not the consensus way. WP:NFC, a guideline that exists to interpret this policy, holds that articles like this can have images, as given by certain criteria they give that are specific to articles like this. Here's an example of the difference: on the characters in GTA:SA page, you said that there were "far too many" images, but that's just your opinion. WP:NFC, the consensus interpretation of the policy, says that "restricting such uses to major characters and elements or those that cannot be described easily in text, as agreed to by editor consensus" is an acceptable way to go. Therefore, the consensus view of what constitutes "too many" images for an article like this is my view, not yours. Croctotheface (talk) 17:29, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

• If I am "interpreting" the policy, I am only interpreting it in the same way that it has been interpreted by the community (and the Foundation, more importantly) in the past. Black Kite 21:02, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

• Posted a note at WT:NFCC on this topic. Hobit (talk) 23:49, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

(Coming here from NFC) Let's summarize what the article-list currently does - it violates WP:WAF for being written completely in-universe. I see original research and synthesis ("Carrington is believed to be behind many lucrative development plans and responsible for violent slum-clearances"). In fact, I see no secondary reliable sources (WP:RS) - excellent points in an AfD to claim this list is nonnotable fancruft and should be deleted. So please spend your energy bringing the text information in this article in line with policy and guidelines to avoid deletion, instead of arguing over images which really should come last. One group shot in the intro however would likely pass #3a and #8, but everything else is excessive and insignificant decoration. – sgeureka ^t•c 07:21, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

But when a group shot is unavaliable, a minimal amount of indivudal images can be used in place which brings us back to square one again. --.:Alex:. 09:59, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Nowhere do we have a policy that backs up your interpretation. Any non-free image must stand on its own regarding NFCC, not merely exist for the sake of it.Black Kite 17:21, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

• I've no attachment to the article and no objection to an AfD. I think it would fail as a character list of a major series is usually considered appropriate. But that problem is independent of the fair use issues. Hobit (talk) 17:12, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

• Let's take a case point. Image:GTAVC SonnyForelli.jpg was used in this article, as one of the "major" characters. I've read the entire text pertaining to this character that is currently on the article. Not once was the image referenced, any particular appearance factors of the character discussed, or anything at all regarding physical appearance. Not once. So, the image is being used decoratively and/or for identification purposes only. It's not being used to increase reader's understanding. The image description page also supports the conclusion that this is for identification only; "The image is intended to illustrate and identify one or more established characters in the game.". If you look at Wikipedia:Non-free_content#Images, it's blatantly clear that simple identification in this case is an insufficient fair use case for Wikimedia's purposes. It might be fair use under U.S. law, but it's not acceptable here. BlackKite is in the right. Having one image for each of the seven major characters is out of line, and must remain deprecated, even if a montage is not available. By the way, have any of the supporters of the images attempted to contact the developers for a montage image? If that hasn't happened, there can't be a case to say there's no montage available. Ask. You don't even have to ask for release of the image under a free license (though that would be nice, but unlikely to succeed). Just ask for a montage image of characters. --Hammersoft (talk) 19:35, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Reverted the improper removal

The character the image portrays is being discussed in enough context to warrant the fairuse application of a screen shot. Black Kite is incorrect and seems to be engaging in disruptive editing to further his own ideological battle against fairuse. Therefore, I have reverted his misapplication of WP:NFCC. --Dragon695 (talk) 13:02, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

You clearly misunderstand WP:NFCC. Please go and read it, and when you've done that, explain how this image passes all criteria. Black Kite 16:56, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Why does someone keep removing all of the information on who the characters are based on??

It's clear that Avery Carrington is based on a character from the film "Striptease" and someone removed it. Why?

Looking at the history, I see this is not the first time a character reference has been deleted.

Markno (talk) 03:06, 11 August 2008 (UTC) Markno Aug 10, 2008

Because unless you can cite a reliable source, then it's original research. Dbam ^Talk/_{Contributions} 18:53, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Photos

Where are the photos of the characters I saw them about a year ago.--74.79.38.72 (talk) 20:46, 21 October 2008 (UTC)JUGG

They were removed in accordance with WP:NFCC. Dbam ^Talk/_{Contributions} 16:46, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Too much

Too much speculation and, oddly enough, too much Random Capital letters. Very Odd. Lots42 (talk) 09:42, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps a reformulation is needed

In the perspective of the player, things may appear differently. Even if events related to secondary missions (payphone / Avery Carrington / Cubans / Haitians / Love Fist / Mitch Baker / Phil Cassidy) that are not required to complete the storyline can be referred to this way, at least when it comes to assets. For example, buying the film studio isn't required for triggering the "Cap the Collector" mission.

"Cortez phones again following the game's final mission to wish Tommy well, and to ask about his daughter, whom he heard (to his great concern) was studying law. Tommy tells him that he is mistaken, much to the Colonel's immense relief (he apparently was not aware that she was starring in a pornographic film, produced by Tommy's film studios, instead)." (the call still takes place without buying the film studio and completing it's missions)

"Later in the game, she becomes involved in the porn film industry, co-starring with Candy Suxxx in a film directed by Steve Scott and produced by Vercetti and his movie studio. " —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.118.182.130 (talk) 08:41, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Victor Vance Death

Why does this article say it was Pete who died in the drug deal? Rockstar has confirmed it was in fact Victor.

http://www.rockstargames.com/newswire/article/741/(updated)_asked_&_answered_%E2%80%93_re_vice_city_red_dead_redemption_and_chinatown_wars

173.17.72.236 (talk) 22:12, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Prejudiced?

"His strong Cockney accent and his drunkenness indicate that he originates from England". Really? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.5.190.71 (talk) 22:22, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Kent Paul

The Kent Paul section seems to be very odd. Was their new information about the character that came out recently? Lots42 (talk) 03:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, the Kent Paul section seems like it's been written when Vice City was released. GTAjaxoxo —Preceding undated comment added 07:22, 23 May 2012 (UTC).

Format, and some other stuff

Don't you guys think that some of the characters sections have their birthdate and name are not in uniform format?

1. Example: Pastor Richards has (1933-) while Tommy Vercetti has born 1951 and BJ Smith has his name not in bold unlike the others.

There is a lot of work here. Some of the sections even have red links. GTAjaxoxo 07:38, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Psycho?

Is that Psycho guy also play a role. He hates Love Fist. He also the one who set up a car bomb in Love Fist Limousine. Is that the same psycho that mentioned in San Andreas: The Introduction? When a guy who dig up a hole asking "You heard about Bobby back east? He's gone queer." Maybe his real name is Bobby. Maybe... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 112.215.36.142 (talk) 13:30, 29 October 2013 (UTC)