Talk:Treaty of Lausanne

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Treaty of Lausanne article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on July 24, 2008, July 24, 2011, July 24, 2014, July 24, 2018, July 24, 2020, and July 24, 2023.

This article may be within the scope of Greek and Turkish wikipedians cooperation board. Please see the project page for more details, to request intervention on the notification board or peruse other tasks.

Turkey Mid‑importance

	Turkey portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Turkey, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Turkey and related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.TurkeyWikipedia:WikiProject TurkeyTemplate:WikiProject TurkeyTurkey articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Greece High‑importance

	Greece portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Greece, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Greece on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.GreeceWikipedia:WikiProject GreeceTemplate:WikiProject GreeceGreek articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Military history: Ottoman / World War I C‑class

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles

C

This article has been rated as C-class on the project's quality scale.

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	Ottoman military history task force
	World War I task force

Switzerland Low‑importance

	Switzerland portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Switzerland, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Switzerland on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SwitzerlandWikipedia:WikiProject SwitzerlandTemplate:WikiProject SwitzerlandSwitzerland articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Law

	Law portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Law, an attempt at providing a comprehensive, standardised, pan-jurisdictional and up-to-date resource for the legal field and the subjects encompassed by it.LawWikipedia:WikiProject LawTemplate:WikiProject Lawlaw articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Comment

Link from main page On This Day is not quite right. This treaty modified Turkey's borders on the Europe as well, Karaagac Station. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.149.89.74 (talk) 19:20, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment

Dropped this link:

http://www.mfa.gov.tr/grupe/ed/eda/edaa/default.htm Full text of the treaty

As it appears to be broken. Ellsworth 22:54, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Intro

The lede should give a summary of the result of the treaty, or its clauses, beside the "international recognition of the sovereignty of the new Republic of Turkey as the successor state of the defunct Ottoman Empire". --Jerome Potts (talk) 04:25, 26 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Constantinople-based Ottoman government?

It definitely was not "Constantinople-based Ottoman government", it should be and is "Ottoman-based İstanbul Government".

Nonsense.Ladnadruk (talk) 20:44, 26 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The sentence "..superseded the Treaty of Sèvres.."

In the article there is a sentence "The Treaty of Lausanne superseded the Treaty of Sèvres which was signed by representatives of the Ottoman Empire" which is not soured. Could anybody please provide sourcing for it? Aregakn (talk) 15:02, 12 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Greek refugees

The above article refers to the compulsory exchange of populations between Greece and Turkey (which certainly happened) being anticipated by the Treaty. However this article does not refer to that. Can any one fill this out? Peterkingiron (talk) 18:25, 26 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

There was a convention between Turkey and Greece about compulsory exchange of populations, signed at Lausanne before the Peace Treaty was signed. It is not part of the Treaty of Lausanne, but it was agreed that it would come into effect as soon as the Treaty of Lausanne was ratified. That's the connection. It isn't clear that it belongs in this article. Zero^talk 09:31, 8 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Dates of ratification

Somewhere there must be an official list of nations that ratified the treaty and when. Anyone know? I'll look at the LofN treaty series soon. Meanwhile, sources are needed for "ratified by the Greek government on 11 February 1924, by the Turkish government on 31 March, and by the governments of Great Britain, Italy and Japan on 6 August." I have good sources that both the Greek and Turkish governments ratified the treaty during 1923. Turkish ratification on Aug 23, 1923 is reported by The Times on the following day (page 8). Also British ratification was announced in the Commons on July 16, 1924 [1] so that one seems wrong too. I suspect some mixup here. Zero^talk 03:58, 7 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

In fact all the given dates are wrong. Perhaps they refer to some other treaty? Fixing the article now. I was not able to find dates for Bulgaria, Roumania or Serbia, if indeed they ratified it. Zero^talk 12:44, 7 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Problem solved. The dates given were when the "instruments of ratification" were deposited in Paris. That is different from the date of ratification. Also Bulgaria was not a signatory. Zero^talk 09:20, 8 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Language

The info-box gave the languages of the treaty as "Turkish, English, French, German" but someone just removed "German". In fact, the treaty itself says that there is only one original copy, and inspection of the League of Nation Treaty Series shows that copy to be in French. So I'm changing it. If anyone has a good source with different information, please bring it. Zero^talk 09:02, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

What is the similarities between the Treaty of Lausanne and the Treaty of Versailles?

I am doing a presentation, and I literally have no clue what each of them are about, so I would really appreciate some kind of help! Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Elineyoyo (talk • contribs) 17:49, 1 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Map is gutter.

The map which shows the Treaty of Sevres and Lausanne is utterly cluttered and not-helpful at all, also, the boundaries are not shown appropriately. Do you have some better map ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Akashpaul21 (talk • contribs) 09:32, 3 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

"secret" annex

Apart from the fact that its full text was published in 1924, further proof that the Declaration of Amnesty was not secret is that it was described in the press already before it was signed. For example, The Times, Feb 1, 1923, p9. Another discussion in The Times on July 18, a week before it was signed. Zero^talk 05:52, 6 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Appreciate your clarification. I used the term "secret annex" because that was used in at least one reliable source (Scharf). (t · c) buidhe 07:40, 6 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Borders

The articles indicated below the title of borders and the resource document (Lausanne Treaty) are not compatible. There is not even an imply that indicates the islets beyond 3 miles of Turkish coast cede to Greece in the original treaty. This is a fraud because there is a reference to the original treaty.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.209.32.73 (talk • contribs)

Signing

So who signed it? 104.153.40.58 (talk) 21:32, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Look in the box on the top right. Zero^talk 02:21, 25 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Don't see any names there.... 104.153.40.58 (talk) 01:13, 26 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Here are the "plenipotentiaries" of each nation.

United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland : The Right Honourable Sir Horace George Montagu Rumbold, Baronet, G.C.M.G., High Commissioner at Constantinople ;
France : General Maurice Pelle, Ambassador of France, High Commisioner of the Republic in the East, Grand Officer of the National Order of the Legion of Honour ;
Italy : The Honourable Marquis Camillo Garroni, Senator of the Kingdom, Ambassador of Italy, High Commissioner at Constantinople, Grand Cross of the Orders of Saints Maurice and Lazarus, and of the Crown of Italy; M. Giulio Cesare Montagna, Envoy Extraordinary and Minister Plenipotentiary at Athens, Commander of the Orders of Saints Maurice and Lazarus, Grand Officer of the Crown of Italy ;
Japan : Mr. Kentaro Otchiai, Jusammi, First Class of the Order of the Rising Sun, Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary at Rome;
Greece : M. Eleftherios K. Veniselos, formerly President of the Council of Ministers, Grand Cross of the Order of the Saviour; M. Demetrios Caclamanos, Minister Plenipotentiary at London, Commander of the Order of the Saviour;
Roumania : M. Constantine I. Diamandy, Minister Plenipotentiary; M. Constantine Contzesco, Minister Plenipotentiary;
State of the Serbs, the Croats and the Slovenes: Dr. Miloutine Yovanovitch, Envoy Extraordinary and Minister Plenipotentiary at Berne ;
Turkey : Ismet Pasha, Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy for Adrianople; Dr. Riza Nour Bey, Minister for Health and for Public Assistance, Deputy for Sinope; Hassan Bey, formerly Minister, Deputy for Trebizond;

The signatures of all of these people appear the end of the document except for Yovanovitch, and I don't know why he is not there. Zero^talk 03:37, 26 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Treaty of Lausanne

Treaty of Lausanne 106.215.222.15 (talk) 19:07, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

British in Egypt 1914

"Egypt and Anglo-Egyptian Sudan (both of which had been occupied by British forces with the pretext of "putting down the Urabi Revolt and restoring order" in 1882, but de jure remained Ottoman territories until World War I) were given to the British Empire, which had unilaterally annexed them on 5 November 1914." Britain did NOT annex Egypt in 1914. It deposed the pro-Ottoman Khedive and then allowed his successor to declare Egypt to be an independent Sultanate, which was upgraded to a Kingdom in 1926. Britain of course retained de facto control until after World War II. Wikipedia's own article the history of modern Egypt makes this clear. Furthermore, the Treaty of Lausanne says nothing about Britain's position in Egypt. It refers to Egypt as though it was a sovereign state. Constant Pedant (talk) 10:50, 12 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Not exactly, though I agree with the deletion. Article 19 says "Any questions arising from the recognition of the State of Egypt shall be settled by agreements to be negotiated subsequently in a manner to be determined later between the Powers concerned." So the treaty does not refer to Egypt as a sovereign state but as a territory whose status is not yet determined other than making clear that Turkey renounces "all rights and titles" there (Article 17). Zero^talk 03:23, 29 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Why is "Declaration pf Amnesty" a separate section? It may very well be under "Stipulations" section.

It's shorter than the parts under Stipulations section and is part of stipulations. It doesn't make sense to have a separate section for that. 78.175.53.136 (talk) 15:07, 8 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Effective date

This citation for "It officially took effect on 6 August 1924, when the instruments of ratification were deposited in Paris." does not support the evidence. There needs to be a different citation. UnsungHistory (talk) 21:40, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]