Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/India
A self-nomination, this page is has all that epitomises a great article. Also has a huge list of linked articles for further reading. [[User:Nichalp|¶ ɳȉčḩåḽṗ | ✉]] 21:08, Sep 4, 2004 (UTC)
Object - Two sentences does not make a lead section and there are way too many stub sections (overuse of the Main article set-up). The TOC is also huge for an article this size. In short, the article needs more fleshing out.--mav 21:33, 4 Sep 2004 (UTC)- Aren't articles to be 'fleshed out' only if it exceeds 30 kb? Also made some major structural changes. [[User:Nichalp|¶ ɳȉčḩåḽṗ | ✉]] 20:52, Sep 6, 2004 (UTC)
Object. Overuse of the Main article set-up is most apparent in the culture section. Keep is a couple summary paragraphs and leave the details in the main Culture of India article. There are also POV issues with the map caption. --Jiang 22:25, 4 Sep 2004 (UTC)- Addressed the lead-in and TOC issue, also made some changes to the Culture section. Seeking further opinion on the culture section. [[User:Nichalp|¶ ɳȉčḩåḽṗ | ✉]] 19:56, Sep 5, 2004 (UTC)
- My objection over the map caption is over the statement "Refer to [[Kashmir#Map_Issues|Kashmir Map Issues]] for a discussion regarding Indian, [[Pakistan]]i and [[China|Chinese]] claims". A quick glance at Kashmir#Map_Issues will show that the explanation is not NPOV and will not suffice. It also doesn't belong in the External links section. Therefore, this article should not feature that one so prominently. The culture section still needs to be converted into the a couple summary paragraphs. The bolded headings need to be removed completely and the cultural links made within the text, not as see also listings.--Jiang 04:50, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- Made several structural changes in the culture, sport and religion sections.' Please check if you still have any objections. I guaged the section size based on the Belgium article (a FA). As far as the map is concerned, what is mentioned in the caption is a fact, not a POV. While the linked article may be a POV, it shouldn't be a major objection as the focus currently is of the India page not Kashmir. I have also made some minor heading changes in the Kashmir page. Will see to Kashmir later nichalp 20:52, Sep 6, 2004 (UTC)
- Culture section now greatly improved. However, popping a link to the external links section of another page is bad form. Consider making a footnote on this page instead? Or will I be reverted if I decide to remove the link myself? --Jiang 01:44, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- I made the edits to resolve my own objections over the map captions but they keep getting reverted by Rrjanbiah who calls them "terrorist". As long as he keeps reverting for such reasons without attempt to achieve NPOV, I cannot drop my objections. --Jiang 21:19, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- You are a chinese POV pusher. You shouldn't be allowed to vote here. You keep on vandalising the article quoting CIA map which no one ever agreed, even encylopedia Britannica. You always wanted to push wrong map of India to the WikiUsers.--Rrjanbiah 05:03, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- Uh, the CIA map is no longer being used in the article. And "Chinese POV pusher"? Apart from sounding funny, that's a totally stupid accusation. - Ta bu shi da yu 05:25, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- First, Rrjanbaih, please be civilized here - calling good users vandals and POV pushers because you disagree with them can only result badly for you. Second, I have edited the caption to a compromise version - I hope both of you find it acceptable. →Raul654 05:16, Sep 11, 2004 (UTC)
- Why don't you follow your own advice? If he is a friend of you doesn't mean that he is good user. It's a known fact that he is a chinese POV pusher and great vandal. As your compromised version suggests that you don't know about the issue and so can only result badly for you. --Rrjanbiah 05:26, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- Mate, calm down! Jiang is a worthy contributor to Wikipedia. - Ta bu shi da yu 04:44, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- Why don't you follow your own advice? If he is a friend of you doesn't mean that he is good user. It's a known fact that he is a chinese POV pusher and great vandal. As your compromised version suggests that you don't know about the issue and so can only result badly for you. --Rrjanbiah 05:26, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- Please take a look at Wikipedia:No personal attacks. If there's something wrong with mine or Raul654's edits, then please explain on the talk page what is specifically unacceptable about them. Making personal attacks does not do the trick as I nor anyone else other than you cannot easily see a "chinese POV" in my edits. Perhaps you can make yourself clearer? --Jiang 05:52, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- First, Rrjanbaih, please be civilized here - calling good users vandals and POV pushers because you disagree with them can only result badly for you. Second, I have edited the caption to a compromise version - I hope both of you find it acceptable. →Raul654 05:16, Sep 11, 2004 (UTC)
- support with new map. --Jiang 00:45, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- Addressed the lead-in and TOC issue, also made some changes to the Culture section. Seeking further opinion on the culture section. [[User:Nichalp|¶ ɳȉčḩåḽṗ | ✉]] 19:56, Sep 5, 2004 (UTC)
- Object:
- Many sections are rather fragmented, and appear to be mostly a summation of facts.
- Could you be more specific? [[User:Nichalp|¶ ɳȉčḩåḽṗ | ✉]]
- Specifically: economy, geography (which fails to mention the major cities in the country) and demographics could use some editing. Jeronimo 22:00, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- Most populous cities are mentioned in demographics. Also added some data to demographics. What is missing in economy? [[User:Nichalp|¶ ɳȉčḩåḽṗ | ✉]]
- Specifically: economy, geography (which fails to mention the major cities in the country) and demographics could use some editing. Jeronimo 22:00, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- Could you be more specific? [[User:Nichalp|¶ ɳȉčḩåḽṗ | ✉]]
- The Indian States and Territories-footer looks weird in the middle of an article, and results in ugly layout. Please replace this by a normal table or list.
- The {India} template saves valuable space, both in terms of real estate and page size (<30kb). If this is an unaccepted wikipolicy, I will certainally remove the template. [[User:Nichalp|¶ ɳȉčḩåḽṗ | ✉]]
- This article lacks photographs. Even a few "corny" Indian subjects such as the Taj Mahal would qualify for a picture in the article.
- Added the Taj photo. [[User:Nichalp|¶ ɳȉčḩåḽṗ | ✉]]
- PRC China was a featured article. It too lacks photographs. [[User:Nichalp|¶ ɳȉčḩåḽṗ | ✉]] 19:45, Sep 6, 2004 (UTC)
- I didn't review these articles, and I would have objected against them if I had. It shouldn't be that hard to find one or two pictures of India. Jeronimo 22:00, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- I find an article about India without even mentioning the (arguably) most famous Indian, Mahatma Gandhi a bit dubious.
- Now mentioned. [[User:Nichalp|¶ ɳȉčḩåḽṗ | ✉]] 20:44, Sep 7, 2004 (UTC)
- Could we have some books as further reading/references?
- I have mentioned one, I'll try and scout around for some more. However this doesn't seem to be a major criteria for rejection as both Belgium and China (earlier FAs) lack comprehensive references. [[User:Nichalp|¶ ɳȉčḩåḽṗ | ✉]]
- Again, the fact that other articles "have gotten away with it" doesn't mean I can't object to it here. This is not a major point though, but I personally prefer to have at least one or two written references. Books do not tend to change or disappear, like webpages, and often contain more and more reliable (or better traceable) information than webpages. Jeronimo 22:00, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- China is not a featured article. People's Republic of China is. --Jiang 01:44, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- One book is mentioned. As for more refereces, I have put up a bulletin on the talk page asking for a few more. This is now out of my hands. [[User:Nichalp|¶ ɳȉčḩåḽṗ | ✉]]
- I have mentioned one, I'll try and scout around for some more. However this doesn't seem to be a major criteria for rejection as both Belgium and China (earlier FAs) lack comprehensive references. [[User:Nichalp|¶ ɳȉčḩåḽṗ | ✉]]
- Jeronimo 13:11, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- Many sections are rather fragmented, and appear to be mostly a summation of facts.
Re-summarizing my objections (some resolved), because this is getting messy: 1) Picture added is nice (more would be great), but location is a bit strange, since the economy section doesn't discuss tourism at all. 2) I'll await your search for further references. 3) The subdivision section is much better now, I like the reference map. However, on my screen the two images overlap with one corner. I'm not sure this can be solved easily. 4) The economy is section is very brief, and for example fails to mention that - despite being one of the largest economies in the world - India's per capita income is rather low. Most of the other mentioned topics could do with some more text. 5) Similarly, geography section is mostly a summary of names. It might - for example - tell something about the fact that India is on its own tectonic plate. 6) The last paragraph of the history section fails to mention Pakistan, even though this country is related with to of the actions described. The "society and religion" section should probably be merged with the demographics and culture sections. Religion is already mentioned in the former, and the rest fits well with the latter. Jeronimo 21:53, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)- 1)I know the pic is in a strange location, but I'm still searching for an apt pics+location. 2)I can't find real decent print references (India in general) to qualify here. Hope for wikipedians to read the bulletin on the India Talk page and contribute. 3)I'm not sure what 2nd image you mention of. Is it a multicoloured state image? I removed that long back. 4) tackled per capita income 5)tectonic plate would have to do more with South Asia, I don't support mentioning it here. 6)Pakistan mentioned (although... 1 war was fought against China. The nuclear explosions were carried out not because of Pak, but China.) 7)I would personally prefer to stick with religion and society else it would make the culture section too large. 8) Although I would like to add more info on the page to address your objections, the page size is 29.5 kb. Since I do like being a perfectionist, I would hate it going above 30k. I also don't think current matter can be excided from the page as a compensatory measure. 20:16, Sep 8, 2004 (UTC)
- The 30KB border is not a holy limit. Please do not withhold information from the page because of that limit! Not combining semi-duplicate section is also strange, I don't think there's any problem with the culture section getting too large. I'll do this myself when I have time. As for the economy and geography sections: my suggestions were just that, nothing more. However, I still think these sections are way too short, contain too little information, and are written in a "fact by fact" style. Jeronimo 06:45, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- I'll try and rework the above and add it in two days. [[User:Nichalp|¶ ɳȉčḩåḽṗ | ✉]] 20:48, Sep 10, 2004 (UTC)
- The CIA map and the states of India map overlap for me (Mozilla browser, no idea what skin I use). Markalexander100 07:00, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- This, I think is a Mozilla specific case. Some users too have mentioned this bug in Talk:Cricket.
- The 30KB border is not a holy limit. Please do not withhold information from the page because of that limit! Not combining semi-duplicate section is also strange, I don't think there's any problem with the culture section getting too large. I'll do this myself when I have time. As for the economy and geography sections: my suggestions were just that, nothing more. However, I still think these sections are way too short, contain too little information, and are written in a "fact by fact" style. Jeronimo 06:45, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- 1)I know the pic is in a strange location, but I'm still searching for an apt pics+location. 2)I can't find real decent print references (India in general) to qualify here. Hope for wikipedians to read the bulletin on the India Talk page and contribute. 3)I'm not sure what 2nd image you mention of. Is it a multicoloured state image? I removed that long back. 4) tackled per capita income 5)tectonic plate would have to do more with South Asia, I don't support mentioning it here. 6)Pakistan mentioned (although... 1 war was fought against China. The nuclear explosions were carried out not because of Pak, but China.) 7)I would personally prefer to stick with religion and society else it would make the culture section too large. 8) Although I would like to add more info on the page to address your objections, the page size is 29.5 kb. Since I do like being a perfectionist, I would hate it going above 30k. I also don't think current matter can be excided from the page as a compensatory measure. 20:16, Sep 8, 2004 (UTC)
- Weak support - recent changes have greatly improved the article but Jeronimo does have some good points. --mav
- Addressed some of Jeronimo's objections [[User:Nichalp|¶ ɳȉčḩåḽṗ | ✉]] 19:30, Sep 13, 2004 (UTC)
- Support, once the references section is cleaned up. - Ta bu shi da yu 05:41, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- Support now. My objections have been addressed (some by myself). Jeronimo 17:43, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I support this article for August 15th Featured article. August 15th is the Indian Independence day. --kunjan1029 22:24, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- Sorry, that's the purview of the selected anniversaries, and it's already covered. →Raul654 05:41, Sep 17, 2004 (UTC)